Right of Reply?
I know a number of people have been fascinated by the content of the Armybarmy blog and would periodically like to enter into public dialogue about it. Here's your opportunity to do so...
July 11: Piper v Wright on justification in Christianity Today seemed a little confusing. Sanctification (both process and crisis) clarifies their confusion.
I'm currently reading Wright's contribution to this debate, and I must say it is anything but confusing. I didn't think there was much left to say about the subject, but this is a brilliantly exposited work that has renewed my interest in a subject I always found somewhat tedious.
Wright's views dovetail nicely into the Army's view of sanctification. I'm not sure what Court's comment means, though. Is he saying that this sort of theological discourse is a waste of time because 'sanctification' supersedes 'justification?' Is he saying that they're barking up the wrong tree, and they're really arguing what we Salvationists call sanctification? Or is he saying that if Piper and Wright were sanctified their discussion wouldn't be so confusing?
I hope not. If anyone's finding this debate confusing it's got nothing to do with sanctification...
The Salvation Army is "growing faster than Christianity as a whole". One wonders where the figures comes from. The claim to be “growing faster than Christianity" is interesting, howeve such claims vary due to different definitions of “growing faster”, and whether the claim is worldwide or regional. Hard data is difficult to come by. We can grow in numbers due to conversion or due to higher birth rates in a religious group, ssuming that children take on the religion of their parents. Is this growth happening in a particular country, is it due to immigration. Does it refer to: The Salvation Army is growing in absolute numbers of adherents and is therefore growing the fastest, by whatever means. Or, is the Army growing the fastest in terms of percentage growth per year, by whatever means. Or is the Army gaining the greatest number of converts. It is said that Christianity has grown between 1.32-1.43% for the period 2000-2005 and the World Christian Database as of 2007 estimated the growth rate of Christianity at 1.32%. High birth rates and conversions were cited as the main reason. From the period between 2000 - 2005. Pentecostalism on the other hand is said to have experienced a global growth rate of 488% expanding from 115 million to 588.5 million global adherents. This certainly beats us and the claim being made. Neither Commisioner Knaggs nor Armybarmy provides much information, just the bald claim. GB
13th July: Friendship Evangelism appears to be by far the most effective means of evangelism. So why not evangelise one of your friends today! An interesting take, however, there is a problem here. As we know it has been too easy for some over-zealous Christians to be manipluative in their relationships. Thus a friendship that is built solely for the sake of delivering the message of the gospel is disingenuous at best. In fact it's predatory and there are many unconnected from the faith who are wary of Christians for that very reason. If we are going to be serious about evangelism, let it flow from your real life with real friendships that are for the long haul whether they become Christians or not. Johno
15th July: You might like to add these statements to the though of Johno as well. "Junior Soldiers are a great resource in the Salvation War".Is that all our Junior Soldiers are? "Kids are key to the kingdom mission. Why not evangelise (with) some kids today". Goes back to previous post by Johno regarding relationships - here it is with children.
Effective evangelism will require a commitment to listening. We need to listen to people, to hear their views, dreams and question, before embarking on any evangelization strategy. Something that seems to be overlooked here. The form of evangelism which sees the restaurant … waiter [who]doesn't think he wants to hear the gospel. And yet you give it to him” is one of manipulation whereby the listener becomes a mere object of the message who is to be converted. It is an abuse of power that imposes upon people. This is something that is seen in the Temptations of Jesus, it is an alternative mission strategy that imposes from above. How, then will the gospel be heard by a world that has become disillusioned with secularisms illusions? Are we right to assume that “…though deep down everyone wants peace and fulfilment only found through the gospel, so they DO WANT the gospel”, and that church and culture are congruent? I think not. New approaches to mission strategy must be developed, and we need to learn how to contextualize the gospel in a pluralist culture. This will require a listening ear to both the context as the voice of God, not the imposition of evangelistic techniques that may have once worked in the long gone past. Paladin
July 11: Piper v Wright on justification in Christianity Today seemed a little confusing. Sanctification (both process and crisis) clarifies their confusion.
ReplyDeleteI'm currently reading Wright's contribution to this debate, and I must say it is anything but confusing. I didn't think there was much left to say about the subject, but this is a brilliantly exposited work that has renewed my interest in a subject I always found somewhat tedious.
Wright's views dovetail nicely into the Army's view of sanctification. I'm not sure what Court's comment means, though. Is he saying that this sort of theological discourse is a waste of time because 'sanctification' supersedes 'justification?' Is he saying that they're barking up the wrong tree, and they're really arguing what we Salvationists call sanctification? Or is he saying that if Piper and Wright were sanctified their discussion wouldn't be so confusing?
I hope not. If anyone's finding this debate confusing it's got nothing to do with sanctification...
The Salvation Army is "growing faster than Christianity as a whole". One wonders where the figures comes from. The claim to be “growing faster than Christianity" is interesting, howeve such claims vary due to different definitions of “growing faster”, and whether the claim is worldwide or regional. Hard data is difficult to come by. We can grow in numbers due to conversion or due to higher birth rates in a religious group, ssuming that children take on the religion of their parents. Is this growth happening in a particular country, is it due to immigration. Does it refer to: The Salvation Army is growing in absolute numbers of adherents and is therefore growing the fastest, by whatever means. Or, is the Army growing the fastest in terms of percentage growth per year, by whatever means. Or is the Army gaining the greatest number of converts. It is said that Christianity has grown between 1.32-1.43% for the period 2000-2005 and the World Christian Database as of 2007 estimated the growth rate of Christianity at 1.32%. High birth rates and conversions were cited as the main reason. From the period between 2000 - 2005. Pentecostalism on the other hand is said to have experienced a global growth rate of 488% expanding from 115 million to 588.5 million global adherents. This certainly beats us and the claim being made. Neither Commisioner Knaggs nor Armybarmy provides much information, just the bald claim. GB
ReplyDelete13th July: Friendship Evangelism appears to be by far the most effective means of evangelism. So why not evangelise one of your friends today! An interesting take, however, there is a problem here. As we know it has been too easy for some over-zealous Christians to be manipluative in their relationships. Thus a friendship that is built solely for the sake of delivering the message of the gospel is disingenuous at best. In fact it's predatory and there are many unconnected from the faith who are wary of Christians for that very reason. If we are going to be serious about evangelism, let it flow from your real life with real friendships that are for the long haul whether they become Christians or not. Johno
ReplyDelete15th July: You might like to add these statements to the though of Johno as well. "Junior Soldiers are a great resource in the Salvation War".Is that all our Junior Soldiers are? "Kids are key to the kingdom mission. Why not evangelise (with) some kids today". Goes back to previous post by Johno regarding relationships - here it is with children.
ReplyDeleteYep, the scalp for the mantelpiece approach.
ReplyDeleteHarry
Effective evangelism will require a commitment to listening. We need to listen to people, to hear their views, dreams and question, before embarking on any evangelization strategy. Something that seems to be overlooked here. The form of evangelism which sees the restaurant … waiter [who]doesn't think he wants to hear the gospel. And yet you give it to him” is one of manipulation whereby the listener becomes a mere object of the message who is to be converted. It is an abuse of power that imposes upon people. This is something that is seen in the Temptations of Jesus, it is an alternative mission strategy that imposes from above. How, then will the gospel be heard by a world that has become disillusioned with secularisms illusions? Are we right to assume that “…though deep down everyone wants peace and fulfilment only found through the gospel, so they DO WANT the gospel”, and that church and culture are congruent? I think not. New approaches to mission strategy must be developed, and we need to learn how to contextualize the gospel in a pluralist culture. This will require a listening ear to both the context as the voice of God, not the imposition of evangelistic techniques that may have once worked in the long gone past. Paladin
ReplyDelete