Right of Reply?
I know a number of people have been fascinated by the content of the Armybarmy blog and would periodically like to enter into public dialogue about it. Here's your opportunity to do so...
15/6/09 - I take it the positive comments regarding the 'Toronto Blessing' are another example of endorsement by Armybarmy. I had thought that this type of revival movement, from Toronto through to the recent Lakelands/Todd Bentley situation, had been pretty well laid to rest as little more than hype over substance, with the manifestations displayed seen as being either demonic or hypnotic, and certainly not considered to be of God.
Jack, don't be surprised about the endorsement, by his own admission he was involved at some point with what happened at Toronto. However, we have again this antedotal claim concerning what happened. bringing Pailton into the equation tends to take him out of context and try and say this is that. What happened at Toronto ect keeps resurfacing with the same character involved and the same involvment of an angel whose name seems to be Emma each time. Also we have similar outcomes and claims,very little of which is verifiable. GB
14/06 Then we have 'rabbit hole' Christians who do nothing to engage their contemporary world. Too busy poking their nose out of their burrow, running from one Army activity to another... Do we really condone this? Where is the place for relationships? Authentic Christianity? Inclusive community? The light is meant to shine in the darkness - not the light! And the good old, cold turkey approach to evangelism which simply does not work but makes the 'doers' feel good but few others. People are not projects - to be won over - but worthy of being treated with dignity, worthy of time spent in developing trust, worthy of genuine relationhips... not just another scalp for the mantlepiece. Harry.
Mmm.. evangelism as portrayed by Armybarmy seems to be a mere ideological crusade. One is often left wondering what is meant by 'saved'. L Newbiggin notes that merely 'getting people saved' "is the preaching of the name of Jesus simply as the one who brings a religious experience of personal salvation without involving one in costly actions at the points in public life where the power of Satan is contracting the rule of God and bringing men and women under the power of evil. Such preaching of cheap grace, of a supposed personal salvation that does not go the way of the cross, of an inward comfort without commitment to costly Action for the doing of God’s will in the world – this kind of evangelistic preaching is a distortion of the gospel. A preaching of personal salvation that does not lead the hearers to challenge the monstrous injustices of our society is not mission in Christ’s way. It is peddling cheap grace".
14th June - Just wanted to agree with something for a change. People often do look to the Salvos for help - the uniform is a meaningful symbol and it works in this manner. I would hope that it communicates care and compassion to people, not just an alternative to professionalism as if one couldn't have both. I've seen this happen as well. Our uniform generates confidence in people that can be a lot to live up to but its also a great privilege.
16/6 Just a thought about setting goals on numbers of cadets (and I'm not referring specifically to anyone here). It seems to me that there's a danger that by going for quantity we risk compromising quality. Shouldn't we be setting the bar for our officers high so that it attracts the best candidates? This might mean taking less cadets but it could also end up with better results at the other end. What kind of criteria should we consider? A tertiary degree? Real work experience in management or community services? How can we better prepare people before they enter Training College? It seems to me that some of our best officers already had most of their skills before they went to College.
Many of the best ones I know did not have any tertiary qualifications! They were still clever people with excellent people skills and a real zest for life generally... life in all it's fullness for all, I mean!
19/6 On the subject of getting words from God and giving them to other people - what the? What part of our brain do we have to shut off so that we are sure that the words that come to us are God's and not our own? What is to stop me from telling my fellow cadet 'God is calling you to be a street sweeper, leave College now'? I find it hard to understand how this can be anything other than manufactured manipulation. Hang on, I think I sense a word from God coming to me. "Anyone who hears from God and then thinks they should speak on 'his' behalf should check into a psych hospital straight away. You can only do Christianity harm."
Regarding giving "a word from God", it is really no more than giving an encouraging comment to another person. It is also a way for the giver to boost their credibility with other like-minded people, as being able to 'hear' the voice is surely a sign of how close and it touch with God they really are. I am also sure that any supposedly prophetic word given would be something along the lines of "you are going to be a mighty warrior" or "you are a beautiful butterfly that is going to break out of it's cocoon". I'm sure the cadets are not going to speak over another person telling them that they are going to spend most of their officership in tiny country town corps or in DHQ admin roles, but that will be the reality for many of them.
19th June - "Prophetic Prayer Games" The post which endorses this way of praying is a reminder that there are far too many today who are used to addressing God in shockingly familiar and even casual ways. Some even talk to and about God as if God were a long lost pal. Or in this case it is reduced to mere childish banter. What always strikes me about the stark contrast between what happens so often today, especially in prayer, and what we find in the NT is that the NT writers were looking for the most exalted language they could possibly find to pray and praise and proclaim God’s goodness and grace in a bolder way.Mayb eit time to remind us that when Aarons sons were executed and Aaron complained to Moses he was told "It is what the LORD spoke, saying, 'By those who come near Me I will be treated as holy, And before all the people I will be honored.'" So Aaron, therefore, kept silent. Lev.10:3 It seems Armybarmy and company have forgotten who they are dealing with and hence the disrespect in prayer. Palidin
Agreed Palidin. There's got to be some balance between God being so out of reach that none of us can ever relate or even try bothering to understand and the puerile 'Jesus is my boyfriend/buddy/mate' language that discredits us all.
15/6/09 - I take it the positive comments regarding the 'Toronto Blessing' are another example of endorsement by Armybarmy. I had thought that this type of revival movement, from Toronto through to the recent Lakelands/Todd Bentley situation, had been pretty well laid to rest as little more than hype over substance, with the manifestations displayed seen as being either demonic or hypnotic, and certainly not considered to be of God.
ReplyDeleteJack, don't be surprised about the endorsement, by his own admission he was involved at some point with what happened at Toronto. However, we have again this antedotal claim concerning what happened. bringing Pailton into the equation tends to take him out of context and try and say this is that. What happened at Toronto ect keeps resurfacing with the same character involved and the same involvment of an angel whose name seems to be Emma each time. Also we have similar outcomes and claims,very little of which is verifiable. GB
ReplyDelete14/06 Then we have 'rabbit hole' Christians who do nothing to engage their contemporary world. Too busy poking their nose out of their burrow, running from one Army activity to another... Do we really condone this? Where is the place for relationships? Authentic Christianity? Inclusive community? The light is meant to shine in the darkness - not the light!
ReplyDeleteAnd the good old, cold turkey approach to evangelism which simply does not work but makes the 'doers' feel good but few others. People are not projects - to be won over - but worthy of being treated with dignity, worthy of time spent in developing trust, worthy of genuine relationhips... not just another scalp for the mantlepiece.
Harry.
Mmm.. evangelism as portrayed by Armybarmy seems to be a mere ideological crusade. One is often left wondering what is meant by 'saved'. L Newbiggin notes that merely 'getting people saved' "is the preaching of the name of Jesus simply as the one who brings a religious experience of personal salvation without involving one in costly actions at the points in public life where the power of Satan is contracting the rule of God and bringing men and women under the power of evil. Such preaching of cheap grace, of a supposed personal salvation that does not go the way of the cross, of an inward comfort without commitment to costly Action for the doing of God’s will in the world – this kind of evangelistic preaching is a distortion of the gospel. A preaching of personal salvation that does not lead the hearers to challenge the monstrous injustices of our society is not mission in Christ’s way. It is peddling cheap grace".
ReplyDelete14th June - Just wanted to agree with something for a change. People often do look to the Salvos for help - the uniform is a meaningful symbol and it works in this manner. I would hope that it communicates care and compassion to people, not just an alternative to professionalism as if one couldn't have both. I've seen this happen as well. Our uniform generates confidence in people that can be a lot to live up to but its also a great privilege.
ReplyDelete16/6 Just a thought about setting goals on numbers of cadets (and I'm not referring specifically to anyone here). It seems to me that there's a danger that by going for quantity we risk compromising quality. Shouldn't we be setting the bar for our officers high so that it attracts the best candidates? This might mean taking less cadets but it could also end up with better results at the other end. What kind of criteria should we consider? A tertiary degree? Real work experience in management or community services? How can we better prepare people before they enter Training College? It seems to me that some of our best officers already had most of their skills before they went to College.
ReplyDeleteMany of the best ones I know did not have any tertiary qualifications! They were still clever people with excellent people skills and a real zest for life generally... life in all it's fullness for all, I mean!
ReplyDelete19/6 On the subject of getting words from God and giving them to other people - what the? What part of our brain do we have to shut off so that we are sure that the words that come to us are God's and not our own? What is to stop me from telling my fellow cadet 'God is calling you to be a street sweeper, leave College now'? I find it hard to understand how this can be anything other than manufactured manipulation. Hang on, I think I sense a word from God coming to me. "Anyone who hears from God and then thinks they should speak on 'his' behalf should check into a psych hospital straight away. You can only do Christianity harm."
ReplyDeleteRegarding giving "a word from God", it is really no more than giving an encouraging comment to another person. It is also a way for the giver to boost their credibility with other like-minded people, as being able to 'hear' the voice is surely a sign of how close and it touch with God they really are. I am also sure that any supposedly prophetic word given would be something along the lines of "you are going to be a mighty warrior" or "you are a beautiful butterfly that is going to break out of it's cocoon". I'm sure the cadets are not going to speak over another person telling them that they are going to spend most of their officership in tiny country town corps or in DHQ admin roles, but that will be the reality for many of them.
ReplyDelete19th June - "Prophetic Prayer Games" The post which endorses this way of praying is a reminder that there are far too many today who are used to addressing God in shockingly familiar and even casual ways. Some even talk to and about God as if God were a long lost pal. Or in this case it is reduced to mere childish banter. What always strikes me about the stark contrast between what happens so often today, especially in prayer, and what we find in the NT is that the NT writers were looking for the most exalted language they could possibly find to pray and praise and proclaim God’s goodness and grace in a bolder way.Mayb eit time to remind us that when Aarons sons were executed and Aaron complained to Moses he was told "It is what the LORD spoke, saying, 'By those who come near Me I will be treated as holy, And before all the people I will be honored.'" So Aaron, therefore, kept silent. Lev.10:3 It seems Armybarmy and company have forgotten who they are dealing with and hence the disrespect in prayer. Palidin
ReplyDeleteAgreed Palidin. There's got to be some balance between God being so out of reach that none of us can ever relate or even try bothering to understand and the puerile 'Jesus is my boyfriend/buddy/mate' language that discredits us all.
ReplyDelete